Mass Killing at Virginia Tech

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those killed or wounded.

4/17/07- Todays updates here and here.

[Update] 4/17/07:

ABC has more, including the name of the shooter.

He is Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old resident alien of the United States, as first reported by ABC News.

Cho is a South Korean national, a Virginia Tech senior majoring in English and the man who killed 33 people — including himself — on the Virginia Tech campus Monday.

Sources tell ABC News that Cho killed two people in a dorm room, returned to his own dorm room where he re-armed and left a "disturbing note" before entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage.

Positive Fingerprint Match

Cho's identity has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials.

"Lab results confirm that one of the two weapons seized in Norris Hall was used in both shootings," Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said at a press conference Tuesday morning.

[Final Update for tonight] Chicago Sun Times has some additional information.

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

The exits to the buildings where the shootings occurred were chained by the shooter, the source said.

Students complained that there were no public address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

I am not going to criticize the response from the school, because unless faced with the same situation, none of us can determine how WE would have handled it better.

[Update] Hot Air has a very good question listed.

I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

[Continuing Updates] For those not near a television, Fox News is offering a Live Stream Virginia Tech Press Conference. (Top of page, click the orange BREAKING NEWS banner to get the stream.)

They just announced it is 33 students that have been killed.

I will keep updating as more news comes out.

Latest from CollegiateTimes.

According to Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum, preliminary reports have stated that the doors of Norris Hall were chained. The shooter killed himself within Norris Hall and bodies were found throughout the building. No additional persons are in custody.

[Update] Injured student talks to MSNBC. Video Provided at the link.

[Update] Fox is reporting that Virginia Tech is planning a 4 p.m. EDT press conference.

[Update] ABC is reporting eye witness accounts.

Everyone Started Panicking and Jumping Out the Window'

Students Talk to ABC News Now About the Va. Tech Massacre, a Day They Will Never Forget.

[...]

It really wasn't organized. Almost everyone else just left, and while the kids were running out, people said, "Come back, come back."

"The only reason we knew was because someone got a text message…No one was there saying, "This is what's going on."

Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…

It's so hard because I know that those police officers are putting their lives on the line and it's so chaotic…There needs to be a better system…

CollegiateTimes has pictures up.

[Update] CollegiateTimes.com has posted a map showing the distance between the sites of the two shooting incidents.




[Update] memeorandum has a list of who is discussing this, but I find that the intro text for the Associated Press article says that a second assailant may be at large, BUT when you click to the article itself, nothing about a second assailant is within the story.

Suspect reported held in fatal Va. Tech shooting — One person dead; 2nd assailant may be at large; 7-8 others may be victims — BLACKSBURG, Va. - A shooting at a Virginia Tech dormitory on Monday left at least one person dead, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press.

Look through the article itself and please tell me if you see anything involving a second assailant. Perhaps this was just a misprint.

Wapo weighs in.

[Update] Instapundit points out that Virginia Tech is a gun free zone despite efforts to change that.

UPDATE: More here and here. And some background here. And reader John Lucas, who works with a Virginia law firm, emails that Va. Tech is a "gun-free zone." Well, for those who follow the law. There was an effort to change that but it failed: "A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly." That's unfortunate.

I have pointed out before, criminals are the ones that don't follow the law, this left campus security without ability to protect the students.


[Updates on Top] Pajamas Media is reporting deathtoll is up to 32.


The scene at Virginia Tech University



Reports are still coming in, but it seems that there were two shooting incidents at Virginia Tech University.

From Fox:

At 7:15 a.m. Monday, a 911 call came in to the campus police department concerning an incident at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and that there were multiple shooting victims, Steger said. While that investigation was underway, a second shooting was reported in Norris Hall, located at the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus.

[...]

The school's Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as "part of routine police procedure," but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.

Police also said there is no evidence the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

Virginia Tech student Blake Harrison said he was on his way to class near Norris Hall when he saw chaos.

"This teacher comes flying out of Norris, he's bleeding from his arm or his shoulder ... all these students were coming out of Norris trying to take shelter in Randolph [Hall]. All these kids were freaked out," Harrison said.

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian student wearing a vest opened fire.

The shooter was "wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom … they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over," Harrison said.

I put emphasis on the two contradicting statements.

Later in the article it states that earlier in the month there were bomb threats at this school also.

On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.

Campus police said there was only one shooter and he is now dead. They are unsure if the shooter was a student and it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

Roanoke News is being updated as news comes in also.

1:07 p.m.

Virginia Tech police Chief Wendell Flinchum said it's unclear what could have prompted today's shootings. An investigation is under way, he said.

At this point, Flinchum said, "we believe campus is secure. We are releasing people to leave campus if they wish."

Tech police got a 911 call at 7:15 a.m. about the shooting in West Ambler-Johnston. At least two people were shot there and some panicked students are reported to have jumped out the dorm's windows.

The Norris Hall shootings happened about two hours later. Classes were canceled and anyone out walking was quickly pulled inside by police or university officials.

"The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus," Tech President Charles Steger said at the noon news conference. He called the incident a "tragedy of monumental proportions."

Counseling centers have been set up in Ambler-Johnston and the Cook Counseling Center, he said, and the school is planning a convocation at noon tomorrow at Cassell Coliseum "for the university community to come together to begin to deal with this tragedy."

Two hours afteer the first shootings, the Norris hall shootings occured. This is very strange and I am sure it will continue to be updated.

Both the Fox link and the Roanoke link are also being updated continuously as news comes in, so keep them open and keep hitting refresh for the updates to appear.

Totals so far reported are 22 dead and 21 wounded. [Updated numbers] Reports are now 32 dead and 21 wounded. [End update]

Hot Air is doing updates constantly, keep your eye there too and of course as more news comes in I will be updating here.




Tracked back by:
*UPDATE* Reported 32 Killed in Virginia Tech Shooting from The Sandbox...

.

Mass Killing at Virginia Tech

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those killed or wounded.

4/17/07- Todays updates here and here.

[Update] 4/17/07:

ABC has more, including the name of the shooter.

He is Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old resident alien of the United States, as first reported by ABC News.

Cho is a South Korean national, a Virginia Tech senior majoring in English and the man who killed 33 people — including himself — on the Virginia Tech campus Monday.

Sources tell ABC News that Cho killed two people in a dorm room, returned to his own dorm room where he re-armed and left a "disturbing note" before entering a classroom building on the other side of campus to continue his rampage.

Positive Fingerprint Match

Cho's identity has been confirmed with a positive fingerprint match on the guns used in the rampage and with immigration materials.

"Lab results confirm that one of the two weapons seized in Norris Hall was used in both shootings," Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said at a press conference Tuesday morning.

[Final Update for tonight] Chicago Sun Times has some additional information.

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

The exits to the buildings where the shootings occurred were chained by the shooter, the source said.

Students complained that there were no public address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

I am not going to criticize the response from the school, because unless faced with the same situation, none of us can determine how WE would have handled it better.

[Update] Hot Air has a very good question listed.

I read somewhere earlier that it’s only a 10 minute walk or so between the dorm and Norris Hall. Where did the killer go between 7:15 and 9?

[Continuing Updates] For those not near a television, Fox News is offering a Live Stream Virginia Tech Press Conference. (Top of page, click the orange BREAKING NEWS banner to get the stream.)

They just announced it is 33 students that have been killed.

I will keep updating as more news comes out.

Latest from CollegiateTimes.

According to Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum, preliminary reports have stated that the doors of Norris Hall were chained. The shooter killed himself within Norris Hall and bodies were found throughout the building. No additional persons are in custody.

[Update] Injured student talks to MSNBC. Video Provided at the link.

[Update] Fox is reporting that Virginia Tech is planning a 4 p.m. EDT press conference.

[Update] ABC is reporting eye witness accounts.

Everyone Started Panicking and Jumping Out the Window'

Students Talk to ABC News Now About the Va. Tech Massacre, a Day They Will Never Forget.

[...]

It really wasn't organized. Almost everyone else just left, and while the kids were running out, people said, "Come back, come back."

"The only reason we knew was because someone got a text message…No one was there saying, "This is what's going on."

Communication from college? I checked my e-mail about 8:30…I went to my class as I usually would. By 8:30 no one was notified that something had happened at 7. We went onto a dangerous campus not knowing…

It's so hard because I know that those police officers are putting their lives on the line and it's so chaotic…There needs to be a better system…

CollegiateTimes has pictures up.

[Update] CollegiateTimes.com has posted a map showing the distance between the sites of the two shooting incidents.




[Update] memeorandum has a list of who is discussing this, but I find that the intro text for the Associated Press article says that a second assailant may be at large, BUT when you click to the article itself, nothing about a second assailant is within the story.

Suspect reported held in fatal Va. Tech shooting — One person dead; 2nd assailant may be at large; 7-8 others may be victims — BLACKSBURG, Va. - A shooting at a Virginia Tech dormitory on Monday left at least one person dead, a state government official with knowledge of the case told The Associated Press.

Look through the article itself and please tell me if you see anything involving a second assailant. Perhaps this was just a misprint.

Wapo weighs in.

[Update] Instapundit points out that Virginia Tech is a gun free zone despite efforts to change that.

UPDATE: More here and here. And some background here. And reader John Lucas, who works with a Virginia law firm, emails that Va. Tech is a "gun-free zone." Well, for those who follow the law. There was an effort to change that but it failed: "A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly." That's unfortunate.

I have pointed out before, criminals are the ones that don't follow the law, this left campus security without ability to protect the students.


[Updates on Top] Pajamas Media is reporting deathtoll is up to 32.


The scene at Virginia Tech University



Reports are still coming in, but it seems that there were two shooting incidents at Virginia Tech University.

From Fox:

At 7:15 a.m. Monday, a 911 call came in to the campus police department concerning an incident at West Ambler Johnston, a residence hall, and that there were multiple shooting victims, Steger said. While that investigation was underway, a second shooting was reported in Norris Hall, located at the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus.

[...]

The school's Web site earlier said one shooter was in custody and officials searched for a second shooter as "part of routine police procedure," but during the press conference Monday, police said they believe there was only one shooter.

Police also said there is no evidence the two shootings at opposite ends of campus were related.

Virginia Tech student Blake Harrison said he was on his way to class near Norris Hall when he saw chaos.

"This teacher comes flying out of Norris, he's bleeding from his arm or his shoulder ... all these students were coming out of Norris trying to take shelter in Randolph [Hall]. All these kids were freaked out," Harrison said.

The students and faculty were barricading themselves in their classrooms after what one person described as an Asian student wearing a vest opened fire.

The shooter was "wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom … they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over," Harrison said.

I put emphasis on the two contradicting statements.

Later in the article it states that earlier in the month there were bomb threats at this school also.

On April 13, the campus closed three of its academic halls after they received a letter stating that explosive devices were in the building. Classes were canceled for the remainder of the day. A bomb threat was also made against Torgerson Hall on April 2.

Campus police said there was only one shooter and he is now dead. They are unsure if the shooter was a student and it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.

Roanoke News is being updated as news comes in also.

1:07 p.m.

Virginia Tech police Chief Wendell Flinchum said it's unclear what could have prompted today's shootings. An investigation is under way, he said.

At this point, Flinchum said, "we believe campus is secure. We are releasing people to leave campus if they wish."

Tech police got a 911 call at 7:15 a.m. about the shooting in West Ambler-Johnston. At least two people were shot there and some panicked students are reported to have jumped out the dorm's windows.

The Norris Hall shootings happened about two hours later. Classes were canceled and anyone out walking was quickly pulled inside by police or university officials.

"The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus," Tech President Charles Steger said at the noon news conference. He called the incident a "tragedy of monumental proportions."

Counseling centers have been set up in Ambler-Johnston and the Cook Counseling Center, he said, and the school is planning a convocation at noon tomorrow at Cassell Coliseum "for the university community to come together to begin to deal with this tragedy."

Two hours afteer the first shootings, the Norris hall shootings occured. This is very strange and I am sure it will continue to be updated.

Both the Fox link and the Roanoke link are also being updated continuously as news comes in, so keep them open and keep hitting refresh for the updates to appear.

Totals so far reported are 22 dead and 21 wounded. [Updated numbers] Reports are now 32 dead and 21 wounded. [End update]

Hot Air is doing updates constantly, keep your eye there too and of course as more news comes in I will be updating here.




Tracked back by:
*UPDATE* Reported 32 Killed in Virginia Tech Shooting from The Sandbox...

.

"Could that change? It might. It may change over years. It may change over months. I can't tell you, but I've said very clearly...."

Do you recognize the inimitable rhetorical style? Do you miss it? If yes, good, because he -- it's John Kerry, obviously -- is threatening to run for President.

Out of the Mouth of Babes.....BUMPED

I am bumping this to the top, it should be seen by all.

First I would like to thank Faultline USA for pointing me towards this touching poignant video created by an extraordinary 15 year old girl and Truth Or Consequences blog for originally posting about this.

Video below.

Do you remember when you were 15 yrs old? I do.

I was a rotten kid. I didn't get in any trouble with the law or with my parents, but I shudder now at the things I did at 15. Politics didn't interest me. The news was full of death every night on the Miami Fla. news stations.

The world was black and white. Things were either right or they were wrong. In the mind of a 15 year old, things are simple.

Things haven't changed much, politics are still nasty, the news is still full of death and destruction whether they are reporting about Iraq or the latest rapest on the loose in any given town, or murder in this or that major city, or serial killers or stalkers....whatever.

The thing about children though is they have no political agenda. None.

Which brings me to a girl named Elizabeth aka FlutieCutie from her YouTube profile.

Name: Elizabeth
Age: 15
I'm a sophomore in high school, and I play the flute/piccolo. I plan on joining the U.S. Army after I graduate. I only hope I can make America as proud as our troops today have, and I hope I can honor them in the way they deserve with my videos.

I love talking to American military personnel, but it's not very often that I get the chance.

Hope you all have a great day and God bless! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

She created and uploaded a video on to YouTube and after watching this video 4 times, I am still astounded that one so young could create something so beautiful and so poignant, that it brings everything down to the basics again.

Right and wrong.

Whether you are a Democrat, Republican or independent or anything in between, this young woman's 5 minute video is a MUST SEE.



5 minutes. Do you have 5 minutes to spare out of your life to see todays world events through the eyes of a 15 yr old?

I did and all I can say is Thank You Lizzie.

I have never, EVER been as touched by a video as I was after watching this one.


Others posting on this video:
Maggies Notebook, Faultline USA, Take Our Country Back, tmq2.

.

Out of the Mouth of Babes.....BUMPED

I am bumping this to the top, it should be seen by all.

First I would like to thank Faultline USA for pointing me towards this touching poignant video created by an extraordinary 15 year old girl and Truth Or Consequences blog for originally posting about this.

Video below.

Do you remember when you were 15 yrs old? I do.

I was a rotten kid. I didn't get in any trouble with the law or with my parents, but I shudder now at the things I did at 15. Politics didn't interest me. The news was full of death every night on the Miami Fla. news stations.

The world was black and white. Things were either right or they were wrong. In the mind of a 15 year old, things are simple.

Things haven't changed much, politics are still nasty, the news is still full of death and destruction whether they are reporting about Iraq or the latest rapest on the loose in any given town, or murder in this or that major city, or serial killers or stalkers....whatever.

The thing about children though is they have no political agenda. None.

Which brings me to a girl named Elizabeth aka FlutieCutie from her YouTube profile.

Name: Elizabeth
Age: 15
I'm a sophomore in high school, and I play the flute/piccolo. I plan on joining the U.S. Army after I graduate. I only hope I can make America as proud as our troops today have, and I hope I can honor them in the way they deserve with my videos.

I love talking to American military personnel, but it's not very often that I get the chance.

Hope you all have a great day and God bless! SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

She created and uploaded a video on to YouTube and after watching this video 4 times, I am still astounded that one so young could create something so beautiful and so poignant, that it brings everything down to the basics again.

Right and wrong.

Whether you are a Democrat, Republican or independent or anything in between, this young woman's 5 minute video is a MUST SEE.



5 minutes. Do you have 5 minutes to spare out of your life to see todays world events through the eyes of a 15 yr old?

I did and all I can say is Thank You Lizzie.

I have never, EVER been as touched by a video as I was after watching this one.


Others posting on this video:
Maggies Notebook, Faultline USA, Take Our Country Back, tmq2.

.

I am Speechless

Anyone who knows me or reads this blog, knows it takes alot to render me speechless.

This story did it.

Mar. 25 - For at least two days, neighbors at a city apartment complex noticed an acrid aroma, black smoke and leaping flames coming from two barbecue grills on the balcony of a second-floor apartment.

What, neighbors at the Red Oak Place apartments wondered, was going on in the unit where 27-year-old Timothy Wayne Shepherd lived? What was he burning at all hours, for days at a time? The answer turned their stomachs.

According to law enforcement officials, Shepherd dismembered, and then burned the body of his former girlfriend, Tynesha Stewart, a 19-year-old Texas A&M University student. Nothing remains of Stewart's body, Harris County Sheriff Tommy Thomas said at a press conference Saturday.

"I just don't know what to think about it," said Louis Evans, whose balcony faces Shepherd's in the quiet tree-lined enclave in northern Houston. "I thought he was a nice normal person. I guess you never know what your neighbors are doing."

Authorities said Shepherd has confessed to strangling and dismembering Stewart, a college freshman who was home on spring break, because he was angry that she had started a new relationship.

Officials first thought Shepherd had disposed of her remains in a large commercial trash bin that had since been emptied, launching an intense debate in the area about whether the Sheriff's Department should conduct a massive and expensive search of area landfills for Stewart's remains.

Stewart was last seen March 15 and was reported missing March 19. The next day the Harris County Sheriff's Office homicide division launched its investigation.

On March 16, neighbors said they first noticed the unusual activity and the unpleasant odor on Shepherd's balcony.

"The smell was awful," said Evans, who also became alarmed after seeing a blaze shoot out from the grills. "I was wondering: What is he burning? Not cooking, but burning. There is a difference."

At times, Evans said, the flames from the grills leapt dangerously close to the roof of the balcony. Evans says he called 911, but when firefighters arrived, the flames had calmed and Shepherd assured them everything was under control.

A leasing agent at the apartment complex also noticed the thick dark smoke and the intense flames and asked Shepherd what he was doing, Evans said. Another neighbor, 18-year-old James Hebert, told The Houston Chronicle that he often cooked out with Shepherd, and even left his grill at Shepherd's apartment. When he wasn't invited over, he asked his neighbor what was going on. Shepherd replied that he was cooking for a wedding, the newspaper said.

Dionne Whitaker, 31, who lives in the complex, said she saw Shepherd carry the grill and smoker to a garbage bin a day or so later, the newspaper said.

Human remains generally require extremely high temperatures to destroy, and authorities have not said how it is possible that Stewart's remains could be completely burned on a patio grill.

"This certainly turned out to be one of the most heinous crimes I've ever seen in my 38 years (in law enforcement)," Thomas, the sheriff, said Saturday.

Shepherd, who is charged with murder, is being held on $250,000 bond in the Harris County Jail. Telephone message left with his attorney, Chip Lewis, were not immediately returned. On Sunday, the door to Shepherd's apartment was covered with plywood boards.

I have no commentary. I was serious when I said this leaves me speechless.

.

Elvis is Alive, Little Grey Men are at Area 51 and Imus

This blog has done one entry about the Imus Controversy which can be found here.

Here is my take.

Conspiracy theories abound over the Imus debacle but as I see it, no laws were broken either by Imus OR the media outlets that made the decision to let him go over his controversial statements.

Everyone was within their rights.

Imus had the right to say what he said, it is up to each individual to decide whether he "should" have said it or not, but he definitely had the "right" to say what he wanted.

Free Speech.

What I find amazing is all the conspiracy theory nuts out there are trying to spin out of this.

Imus had the right to say it..YES, but the advertisers ALSO had the right to pull their advertising, the news outlets ALSO had the right to fire him because without their advertisers, they would have no income.

Everyone was well within their rights to act as they did and Elvis is not alive, little grey men are controlling the world from area 51 and people need to get over it.

What brings this up is an article in Pravda that I read, in which the Imus firing was the work of, as they state it, "US war leaders" desire to hide the truth of 9/11.

In a clear sign of its intent to reign in dissident American media personalities, and their growing influence in American culture, US War Leaders this past week launched an unprecedented attack upon one of their most politically 'connected', and legendary, radio hosts named Don Imus after his threats to release information relating to the September 11, 2001 attacks upon that country.

What a joke.

As you can tell from the technorati search on the keyword Imus, people from both sides of the political aisle has spoken out against his latest comments.

There is no conspiracy.

More from Pravda:

Unable to attack such a powerful media figure as Don Imus, directly, the US War Leaders, and as we have seen many times before, resorted to a massive media attack against him using as the reason a racial slur against a US woman's basketball team, but which has been pointed out by other media outlets was not by any means a rare occurrence for the legendary radio icon to make.

But, to the US War Leaders, Don Imus represented the most serious threat, to date, of the growing assault against them by America's media personalities threatening to expose the truths behind the events of September 11, 2001 and the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars; and to such an extent that another American media personality, Rosie O'Donnell, has expressed concern that US Military Leaders could actually imprison Mr. Imus.

Okay, lets take a look at exactly who has been against Imus here.

Obama:

April 11, 2007— In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus' show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

Obama said he appeared once on Imus' show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning."

Is anyone seriously going to try to suggest that Obama is a US War Leader?

Hillary Clinton:

Sen. Hillary Clinton (N.Y.), however, said Imus' cracks just confirmed her opinion.

"I've never wanted to go on his show and I certainly don't ever intend to go on his show, and I felt that way before his latest outrageous, hateful, hurtful comments," she said.

Ok, so she voted for our actions in Iraq, but she has done everything she could to distance herself from Bush and this administration, just as the polls tell her to do.

Now lets take a look at who has been defending Imus:

Embattled radio host Don Imus is getting support from many of the politicians and journalists who frequently grace his show - including presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani.

Despite many calls for the shock jock's resignation, Giuliani said he would again appear with Imus, and after talking to him on the phone he believes Imus "understands that he made a very, very big mistake."

"I take Don at his word that he understands the gravity of what he said," Giuliani told the Daily News. "He seems sincerely sorry about it and seems like someone who will endeavor not to do that again and I take him at his word."

Giuliani was not the only White House hopeful to say he would again chat on air with Imus. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a frequent guest whose campaign Imus has backed, said he would continue to appear with the cranky commentator.

"He has apologized," McCain said. "He said that he is deeply sorry. I'm a great believer in redemption."

So, are the brain children of Pravda suggesting, even for a moment, that Obama and Clinton are the "US War Leaders" and that McCain and Giuliani are not?

What alternate reality are the writers of the pravda piece living in???!!??

This line from Huffington Post has also caught my attention:

Individuals who hide behind the anonymity afforded by the Internet are seeking to squelch the First Amendment right of people whose identities are readily known and who, unlike their cowardly critics, put their names and credibility on the line each and every day on matters of public concern. Left unconfronted, it is a dangerous practice in the making.

Lets lay this to rest, ok Huffpo?

It is called Capitalism.

an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

No one is going after Free Speech, but just as it is the right of every American to speak freely, it is also the right of each corporation to make money.

If you make your money through advertising, then it behooves you to remove anyone that costs us, as a business, said advertising... it is that simple.

Meanwhile companies such as Procter & Gamble Co. and Staples Inc. have started withdrawing their ads from Imus' shows following the incident. "Based on recent comments that were made on the show, it prompted us to kind of take a look at our decision to advertise and as a result we decided to stop advertising on that program," said Paul Capelli, spokesman for Staples, which had only recently started advertising on Imus' shows.

No laws were broken, no criminal charges face Imus, no fee speech is being jeopardized.

There ARE ramifications for what is said publicly, it is a fact of life.

There is no large conspiracy theory, Elvis is not alive, there are no little grey men at area 51 and Imus is not being targeted by "US War Leaders", he is simply suffering the consequences of speaking without thinking.

For the record, I am not going to get into the thousands of people that would have had to be involved in some sort of 9/11 consipracy, from the witnesses in New York, to the witnesses at the Pentagon, to the families that spoke to the passengers on flight #93, to the al-Qaeda videos claiming responsiblilty for the attacks.

The 9/11 consipracy theory is simply insane and not worth the time it takes to debunk their idiocy.

As to Imus, maybe next time he will think before he speaks...then again, he might not.

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I cannot fathom the mind of the turtle.

What's with them standing so close together they're forced to bend their heads up like that? They have enough room to space out and hold their heads at a more natural angle. Yet they're all doing it, even the one in front who must be imagining the back end of a turtle. I cannot fathom the mind of the turtle. Life must be so different there on that log... which is in a little pond on the grounds of the University of Texas... near these waterlilies...

Gorgeous scarves and shabby suits.

Naturally, Robin Givhan must do an essay on what Nancy Pelosi wore in Syria and what the Iranians made the British sailors wear, and just as naturally, I must blog about it:

[Each scarf she wore] was incorporated into the day's wardrobe. One hesitates to say that she accessorized her ensembles with the scarves because that makes it sound as though their significance can be equated with a pair of earrings or a strand of pearls. They were more meaningful than that. They allowed her to be respectful of the day's hosts while maintaining her own public identity. She looked like herself and she maintained control of the visual message.

There are few images more discomforting than public figures thrust into foreign cultures and required to wear the host's traditional attire. Almost without exception the visitors tend to look smaller and more vulnerable. They evoke the uneasiness of children who have been dressed by a parent, teacher, minister or other authority figure....

When the recently released British detainees were trotted in front of the media in Iran, the men were not in the uniform of their country, which would have been a reminder of their international stature, but rather in look-alike shabby suits and no ties. They were dressed in the image of Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Western mufti was appropriated and served as a stand-in for an emasculating uniform, making the seamen appear small and uncertain. The lone woman looked like she had been overpowered by someone else's cultural traditions.

Pelosi, with her carefully coordinated scarves, respected her foreign surroundings without ceding any control.

It's an awkward comparison. Pelosi got to choose -- not only to go where she did, but also to comply with the clothing requirements with her own things. The British sailors were, obviously, far more constrained. Fawning over Pelosi is bad enough. Of course, this rich woman who has long had an interest in fashion picked really nice scarves when she had to wear a scarf. But dragging in the sailors to load more praise on Pelosi looks really.... shabby.

Is America a Democracy?

Is America a Democracy? Yes or no?

Is America a Democracy?
	Yes
	No
	I don't know
Free polls from Pollhost.com

I keep hearing people use the phrase "The will of the American people", the most recent in an article from the New York Times, quoting Hillary Clinton:

Among the signs of Democrats fighting back are an online petition begun by the presidential campaign of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, expressing opposition to the veto that Mr. Bush has threatened for the bills that would attach timelines for withdrawal to the release of the war financing. “Mr. President, please work with us,” Mrs. Clinton said in a statement on Tuesday. “Don’t veto the will of the American people.”

I also see this argument tossed out there in my comment section constantly.

There is a second article written by the Examiner where the writer, Jay Ambrose suggests that Chuck Hagel read the constitution before he speaks.

Good suggestion.

I would also recommend this to the commenters that like to throw that phrase "The will of the American people" around.

If you doubt the Nebraska Republican capable of feeling contempt for the act of resisting public pressure for the sake of a principle, take note of what he has been saying.

“Any president who says ‘I don’t care’ or ‘I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else’ or ‘I don’t care what the Congress does, I am going to proceed’ — if a president believes that, then there are … ways to deal with that,” Hagel is widely quoted as having said on ABC.

The issue is Bush’s objections to picking a date for the United States to withdraw the military from Iraq. If he does not back down, Hagel has indubitably, brazenly, shockingly said, Congress can impeach and convict him.

“You can impeach him,” Hagel said in an interview with Esquire magazine, and before this is over, you might see calls for his impeachment.” Bush, he says, “has lost the confidence of the American people in his war effort,” adding, “This is not a monarchy. There are ways to deal with it. And I would hope the president understands that.”

No, this is not a monarchy. It is a constitutional republic. And what the Constitution says about impeachment is not a matter of guesswork — the requirement is that there be a demonstration of “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” I wish Hagel would understand that, and some other things, as well.

He ought to get it that the president is commander in chief of the armed forces with the power of battlefield command, and he ought to get it that while the different branches of government have carefully delineated means of checking each other, no branch can simply disband another because it or a majority of the public sees things differently.

He ought to get it that while the Constitution gives Americans a system of self-governance, it is chock-full of safeguards against runaway public passions. Not the least of them is a bicameral legislature in which the Senate is supposed to be a more cautious force than the House, often hesitating (like the president) when the polls, loud commentary and the latest election results scream for immediate action.

And he ought to get it that President Bush’s stance on the war is not some ploy intended to win plaudits. This man who has set records for a refusal to exercise his veto power is now standing up to Congress despite a nation largely turned against him. The reason is that he agrees with the experts who think the congressional prescription would give us a multiheaded disaster. Call that stubborn if you like. A better word is courageous.

Hagel is a Vietnam combat veteran who thinks the Iraq war was unjustified and has been incompetently managed. He is angry about that and, understandably, about war advocates who seem to view the loss of American lives there as “an abstraction.”

He himself has talked about the need of senators to act courageously, saying they should have sold shoes if they wanted secure jobs. But in even suggesting that a way to cope with a disagreeing president is to impeach him, he is letting his anger override a basic premise of our system, not to mention reflective judgment and common sense.

Maybe he is the one who should sell shoes.

Yet another good suggestion.

That article just answered your pop quiz question.

How many of you answered yes when I asked if America was a democracy? Come on, be honest now....... did you?

Those that did are wrong, pure and simple.

The United States of America is one of the oldest constitutional republics in the world.

The fact that a constitution exists that limits the government's power, makes the state constitutional. That the heads of state and other officials are chosen by election, rather than inheriting their positions, and that their decisions are subject to judicial review makes a state republican.

The constitutional republic with its limitations on popular government is clearly involved in the Constitution, as seen in the election of the President, the election of the Senate and the appointment of the Supreme Court." That is, the ability of the people to choose officials in government is checked by not allowing them to elect Supreme Court justices. A republic, as distinguished from a democracy, the people are not only checked in choosing officials but also in making laws.

A Bill of Rights exists in the U.S. Constitution which protects certain individual rights. The individual rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights cannot be voted away by the majority of citizens if they wished to oppress a minority who does not agree the restrictions on liberty that they wish to impose. To eliminate these rights would require government officials overcoming constitutional checks as well as a two-thirds majority vote of Congress and ratification by three-fourths of the States in order to amend the Constitution.

John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men.

In historical usages and especially when considering the works of the Founding Fathers of the United States, the word "democracy" refers solely to direct democracy, while a representative democracy where representatives of the people are elected and whose power to govern is limited by laws enshrined in a constitution is referred to as a constitutional republic.

Our founding fathers understood that the "majority" is not always right and could and often does allow their passions to overcome their common sense, so they built in protections with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

I would be willing to lay good money on the fact that those that answered yes to the question of whether America is a democracy, never has read the full Bill of Rights along with the Constitution.

You may have read one or the other, but if you had read them both, you would not have answered yes in the first place.

If you have read them both and still answered yes, then you have bigger problems than I can address here, for sure.

Do not try to "excuse" your wrong answer by trying to tell yourself or me that you somehow "misunderstood the question" or "took it wrong", the question was simple, you either said yes or no and you were either right or wrong.

Period.

Many have heard the expression "We the People" and without bothering to read the actual documents believe that because of that phrase everything that is done by the will of the people.

We the people is written into the preamble of our Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We the people does not refer to "the will of the people" in regards to actions associated with the President or the senate or congress, it simply added there for the purpose of declaring that the constitution came from "the people" themselves.

The Preamble neither grants any powers nor inhibits any actions; it only explains the rationale behind the Constitution.

It looks like not only Chuck Hagel should read the Constitution but so should Hillary Clinton from her statement above, she probably would have answered yes to the titled question also.... and this woman is running for President?

They don't even understand the difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy.

Do you?

The Founding Fathers might not have forseen the intricate way our media has evolved and now imposes their opinion and political agendas into their supposed "news" stories, but they did have the forsight to make sure that the "will of the people" are expressed through elections, from there on, it is the individuals elected that make the decisions, not the people nor their individual wills. After the will of the people is done (elections), it is then out of the peoples hands until the next election when the people get to speak their will again.

That is where the separation of powers comes in.

Presidential Powers:

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Congressional Powers:

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Perhaps Nancy Pelosi should read or reread the Constitution also, because she is under the delusion that being voted into Congress has given her some "Presidential" powers.

The separation between the two is very clear.

The President decides foreign policy and commands our military.

Congress funds them or denies them funds, but Congress nor the Senate have the power to command our military, that IS the Presidents power.

We are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democracy and people should learn the difference between the two before spewing forth such nonsense as "the will of the people".

[UPDATE] OOOOOPS, A HUGE thank you to Perri Nelson for emailing me and letting me know that I had somehow turned the commenting off which in turn disabled the trackback URL from showing.

Thanks Perri and all is fixed now thanks to you!!!!!

[End Update]

[UPDATE] 4/16/07- Matt Stoller of at MyDD also does not understand that America is not, and never has been, a Democracy.

One has to wonder where he got his education, huh?

He was corrected here, but does not acknowledge his misrepresentation....which leads me to believe he is deliberately lying to his readers.

[End Update]




OPEN TRACKBACKS TODAY

Trackposted to Pet's Garden Blog, Blog @ MoreWhat.com, Perri Nelson's Website, third world county, basil's blog, Overtaken by Events, The Amboy Times, The Bullwinkle Blog, and Right Voices, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe.


Tracked back by:
Midweek Linkfest For April 4-5, 2007 from Stuck On Stupid... (You HAVE to see the awesome cartoon)
Very Active' 2007 Hurricane Season from Gulf Coast Hurricane Tracker...
The Modern Left: Unable to Muster a Damn from The Virtuous Republic...
It's the demographics, stupid - the Flight from Is from Planck's Constant...
Yippi-kay-ya, Mother F***** from Mark My Words...
Truth and Hope Report: The Collapse of Rudy from Adam's Blog...
ACLU Loses Court Battle to DoD and Boy Scouts from The Amboy Times...
Easter Weekend Linkfest For April 6-8, 2007 from Stuck On Stupid...

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